So if I understand well, James fights the carebear who play the sandbox their way who, in turn, fights James for playing the sandbox his way. Is that it?

the person who wrote this suffers from a lack of reading comprehension.

@OP: very nice writeup. i wish every EVE player was able and willing to read and understand it.

no. james fights for the one popular MMO that is still somewhat of a sandbox to not be overrun by carebears and become a space candyand.

You have no more proof that the growth of the game is exclusively due to highsec players than I do that it's due to nullsec players. Less silly claims, please.

highsec should not function like lowsec. because if it did, it would be lowsec. highsec should function like a starting point for new players to get off their training wheels and not for EVERYONE to stay there indefinitely and suck on glaciers while watching porn.

You're confusing "highsec inhabitant" with "PvP intolerant player". Most players live in highsec because it is competitively advantageous to do so, not because they refuse to take risks. It's that the rewards for taking risks are not there. Players like being rewarded. Change the rewards and risks equally for all and we'll see who stays and who goes.

What we do know is that the "PvE exclusive" crowd, judging by carebear expansions that are considered failures like Incursion and Tyrannis, is a small minority when it comes to CCP's bottom line. Whether it's because they are small in number or because they PLEX all their subs, I can't say, but I can say that nerfing their riskaverse isk farming "playstyle" will not kill EVE.

The "carebear dollar" myth is usually invoked when all other arguments to defend anti-PVP standpoints are exhausted and the anti-EVE arguer has to resort to threatening EVE itself.

I presume you are referring to the group who demand game mechanic changes that grant them immunity from everyone else in the sandbox.

The gank n bump brigade aren't asking CCP to change the way that others play, they are doing it themselves using the tools that CCP give them. The ones that are whining about the gank n bump brigade are asking CCP to change the way that others do, because they can't be arsed to do it themselves.

There's a big difference in entitlement there.

Here's the short and simple version.

People can play the game anyway the like, people are free to mine, mission run, grind anomalies, etc, what they are not free to do is complain when someone else decides to interfere with them by trying to engage them in PvP, if you don't like how others play, do something other than cry about it. If people want a truly risk free hisec the test server is that way ------->.

ftfy

ftfy



The difference is that they're not asking CCP to do the change, they're doing it themselves. Some players adapt to the game and environment, others expect the environment and game to change around them. Guess which one is better for the game as a whole?

False dichotomy.

This isn't even a non-sequiter, because it doesn't even form a coherent statement. Do you even understand what the words 'non consensual' mean?

The CSM platform of James 315 is deliberately extreme & controversial, he knows full well that CCP won't implement 99.9% of the things he's basing his platform on, it is designed to provoke a reaction.
In answer to your question, I've read the wall'o'text OP and I agree with it, I'm also well aware of what James 315 does, I've been involved in it for a few months now, even though I disagree with 90% of his CSM platform I'm in total agreement with what the New Order does.

Calling me dense does you no favours whatsoever and is bordering on getting personal, feel free to do so though because quite frankly, I don't give a damn about your opinion of me or my posting.

We have come to the point where "high sec activities" and "PVP" are two mutually exclusive categories. Your words say more then you know. What started as a game with gradiating degrees of risk and reward the further out you went has been reduced to a place where you do 'highsec activities' to get the ISK to PVP (in presumably non-highsec areas).


Of course it's a myth. CCP took away the "grind 140m an hour in highsec incursions' option - where did the thousands of incursion players leave to? Subs went up after Crucible and after a brief spike, went down after Incursion in its broken, risk-free form was released. Why would other advantages like 'wardec immunity for my farming alt' be any different? They aren't, the 'carebear dollar' myth is exactly that, a 'simple and fundamental fact' proven time and again.

Actually, the New Order hasn't done much in the way of asking CCP to change anything. The New Order has been making the change all on it's own. Miners begged CCP to stop the Order, CCP said deal with it. We're having fun making other people PLAY the game. If you think for one second that it's inexcusable for us to engage AFK ice miners using the mechanics that they have begged for over the years, I'm not sure what to tell you.

I don't see why everyone rushes to defend characters that the players can't even be assed enough to play but one click an hour, but the OP has given me hope in that some people can learn to read past the satire to see what's going on. As a new player, I can already see how easy it would be to fall into the silk prison of HighSec and never want to leave. Get horrified by the prospect of having to actually play the game, or be made aware that it's not a single player game.

Instead, people want to AFK mine ice with no tank, and cry when someone either bumps them out of mining range or kerplodes their mack.

"Oh noes, an Invincible Stabber bumped me 45 minutes ago and I just now noticed, CCP PLZ HALPS MY ISKS"

And a lack of pirates is causing global warming.

So, because mining barges and exhumers got a boost to their EHP, CCP is moving EvE in the direction of being a carebear campground themepark?

Pull the other one, it's got bells on it.

I totally understand your desire for a risk free game where you can progress unhindered. I tanked the old Burning Crusade instances on my night elf warrior. There's a reason WoW clones make approximately all of the money.

However, what I don't understand is why it's so important to you that you destroy a game I love to get that.

It's understandable that it looks that way to you, but you are mistaken in a fundamental way: I want to preserve the game's initial values, not destroy them.

I would never log into Tera or WoW and start demanding that the developers change mechanics to favor an unforgiving world where every action carries risk and consequence.

Nope, danger is supposed to exist everywhere in Eve. You are never supposed to feel perfectly safe and relaxed while undocked...or even while docked in some cases.

NPC corp chat is an excellent and reliable source for information on sov nullsec.

Not happy with people being able to make isk afk in space they fought for? go and do something about it. The New Order guys and James 315 aren't happy about people being able to make isk while afk in highsec, which is the area they specifically state they are concentrating on, they are doing something about it, using the very mechanics that the afk isk makers have pushed for in the last few years.

Your assumption here is that CCP is after growth is not proven

Let's remove concord, then highsec can enjoy null's level of safety.

None taken. You based an argument on unproven suposition, something that I felt compelled to point out.

In any case it is not relevant to the discussion at hand. This is not about CCP, it is about ourselves.

It really is amazing since the argument is being made by the ones bluing up all of Null to be safe, really guys that dog won't hunt anymore. Fact is null sucks and why? Because you made it that way by following dear Leaders agenda which we all no has nothing to do with the game and more about putting coin in there pockets. Miner bumping? I mean wtf is that? sounds like something a child with too much time on there hands would do, seriously grow the f**k up

Good games all have a sense of accomplishment, some risk, puzzles to figure out and the chance to do so in direct competition with other players. Perhaps many of the people who subscribe to Eve are after only entertainment and not a game. But i don't think so.

And if it is true that the people in Eve want a game and not spectator sport then perhaps the lowest common denominator of false achievement and pretty graphics is not the best way to go for anyone. Even if it is the clearest, safest, most agreeable direction.

If you're taking a dump while mining, you are afk mining, afk means away from keyboard, sitting on the pan is away from keyboard, unless of course you play on a laptop and take it with you.



Nowhere in this thread have I mentioned the term "risk averse", and for your information out of all the people I've met while supporting the New Order, very few are null sec alts, I'd go as far as to say that a large number are null and lowsec mains, with the remainder being made up of highsec players, some are highsec gankers by nature, some are highsec miners who are having a laugh removing their competition from the field, while others like myself were bored with highsec and have already lived in wormholes, roamed through lowsec and annoyed the incumbents in null.

I disagree with a lot of James' CSM manifesto, I've said as much both in this thread and on the blog, I personally don't think highsec needs nerfing into the ground, I do however believe that both nullsec and lowsec need a significant buff so that they become viable places to do something other than blob each other or dock up everytime a red appears in local.

There is a reason that so many lowsec and nullsec players have highsec alts to make their isk, all the infrastructure for industry is much more accessible in highsec, mining in highsec is relatively safe if you're actually paying attention, PvE in highsec is also relatively safe if you have even the vaguest understanding of aggression mechanics, the same goes for hauling and pretty much every other activity you can do in highsec.

[off on a tangent]
If, for example, players were given the tools to upgrade the industrial infrastructure in both nullsec and lowsec so that it could compete with highsec in terms of production and cost, maybe by allowing them to increase the amount of research/copy/manufacturing slots available to them via a system control mechanic, while I'm aware that this can already be done using a POS and that there are industry upgrades available for Sov null I'm not au fait with how the null upgrade system actually works and I doubt it includes the kind of upgrades I'm talking about.

If more people start doing highsec type stuff in lowsec and nullsec and CCP allow us, the players, to control certain aspects of it, then they become viable alternatives to having an alt in highsec. The side benefit is that with more players comes greater security, lowsec and NPC null corporations involved in stuff that is currently done in highsec would have to organise their own security services to clean out the current inhabitants that like to prey on them. [/off on a tangent]

This does seem probable after reading some of the posts in this thread

Well obviously some did because some of them left UO and invented a little thing called EVE Online.

And now you are saying they themselves should do exactly the same thing to EVE? UO wasn't enough? The countless mindless MMORPGs that have followed aren't enough? EVE has to be dragged down too?

This is the fundamental problem with you 'carebear types' - you want every game to suit you. Whereas the 'ganker types' want only one game for themselves - the game that was originally intended for them.

Hypocrisy is the word you are looking for. If you are going to mischaracterize my post, at least use the right word.

But, of course, there is nothing hypocritical (or ironic) about it, because nobody is justified in expecting a game aimed at other people to change to suit them, myself included.

To say otherwise is to say that you actually do expect every game made to cater to you.

But CCP does cater to me. They try to figure out what will be fun for me. The game isn't an immaculate entity divorced from player opinion.

Fortunately there is now a one word answer to any implication that CCP has the absolute and final word on what is best for the game: Incarna. As for not listening to whines, I guess that it's just through coincidence that they keep answering them then?

With regard to the carebear playstyle, if you mean putting it back to the level it was at in the past (and then hopefully moving focus on to fixing lowsec/0.0), sure, why not? I wouldn't seriously advocate for the removal of highsec or something extreme like that because, as you say, EVE was always intended to have some level of carebearing.

I don't think anyone disagrees with that.

No one wants that.

But to balance EVE, we need to nerf high-sec while buffing low- and null-sec. Then we'll have a proper balance of risk vs. reward.

You're truing to " tilt the game in the favor of their huge blue, carebear empires in null sec."

HTFU carebear Eve is doomed

So, wait, you're mad because some dudes went out and grabbed sov by the balls, and made it theirs, and then they get to carebear in it to their heart's content so long as they defend it from all comers?

Sounds like that's how ****'s supposed to work, darling.

They're praying to their NPC gods that those "some dudes" won't come and grab their miners/freighters by the balls

And "squeeze" with blasters and/or artillery.

Carry my argument for me? You were just saying you wanted gankers removed because Eve is "dying" and I replied because I didn't notice it was posted by the idiot brigade. If I had it my way Eve would go back to how it was when I started. Concord would be killable and escapable. I'd remove jump drives to keep freighters full of goodies from teleporting past gate camps while I was at it.

Null Sec is full of bot-aspirant afking nullsec miners.

Yes, I'd say he's quite against their interests.

Exactly. If we reduce the ability to gank, awox and otherwise harm people in highsec, EVE Online will grow stronger.

To a safer, brighter highsec ! To a growing EVE Online !

It's outrageous that nullsec, which does not rely on NPC protection, is able to make themselves safer than people in highsec.

CONCORD clearly needs to step up their game, if all this crap is going on and they are less efficient at stopping it than a bunch of anti-social tryhard speglords in nullsec.

Bad argument.

Unless you are having some kind of digestive emergency, you have time to kill the mining module, and log off before you hit the can.

If you are having a real emergency, then getting podded is the last thing you are worried about.

If you AFK in a field we are patrolling, we don't care. you may wake up in station. Even a Permit will not save you from being ganked by the Order for AFK mining. The Code states this.

Permit miners must be ATK, and greet gankers and New Order agents and knights warmly in local.

Not even a Permit Tank will save an AFK miner from us.

Your sig keeps getting bigger, but it needs something else that really drives home your disgust of these null-sec opium dens.

Wormhole space, actually.

No sov. Just one long series of small gang PvP ... with Dreads and carriers involved.

I never did spend any time in Null. I prefer making money and doing PvP in wormhole space, and in Highsec I like roleplaying a statist hardass who is helping force a fascist government on a bunch of mining hobos.

I find the RP both fun and hilarious. I use wormhole profits to fund my highsec adventures.

Surely you do not disapprove of my endulging in RP in an MMO?

ORE ships in highsec, he's exploding them to.

OK, we have a goonspiracy enthusiast in the thread.

That's another square on the minerbumping bingo card filled.

The New Order = goonspiracy is almost like a free square. You people get an amazing amount of rent-free space in carebear skulls.

I'm in awe.

Irrelevant.

I am doing my own bidding. In game, I am an immortal Capsuleer. The worst that can happen to me is that I might lose something I undock with.

Big deal.


Cultivate this attitude and you might enjoy the game more.

That is always the best way to make friends and influence people. Namecalling. You should be like Gallant, and be polite to those that are trying to help you.

That is OK. If you have a carbear addiction, we will still help you get over it. There is no limit to the number of times you can be subjected to cleansing Holy Antimatter in order to help you break this addiction.

We Knights of the New Order will be there to help you, whether you want our help or not. James 315 has commanded it.

James 315 is the leader we need.

James 315 is the leader we deserve!

No, I suggested you should be more like Gallant, who endeavors to do the right thing, unlike Goofus, who insist on wrong headed obstinance.

I'm sure you can find a information about Goofus and Gallant with a simple search.